Posts by Make Lemonade

76

Humans have been on the earth for 6,000 years?

by make yourself in

so i just heard this today at the meeting.

honestly i've never really paid much attention too it, but i know it's out of place.

can anyone shed some factual and historical light on this subject?

Make Lemonade

make yourself: Would you elaborate on what was said at your meeting that caused you to take notice of the "6,000" years of man's existence? Was it a comment? How old was the person who commented? Etc.. Please feel free to hold back any details that would reveal to much information .

Other post here have pointed out the background of this teaching. Let me add that the Photo Drama of Creation has a slide that presents each creative day as 7,000 years long. For Watchtower writers to "come clean" that the publications have been in error before and after 1919 would shake core beliefs about the Faithful and Discreet Slave. How could "God's sole channel of comunication" be wrong about the creation of the earth, etc.?

I remember when the Catholic Church (and others) dealt with this type of contradiction between science and the Bible. Things like saying that the first 5 books of Genesis are myths and not to be taken literal. The Watchtower responded by chargeing those religions with having no respect for the Bible. In Watchtower reasoning the fact that the "slave" respected the Bible, made them the true religion. Science makes progress. Evidence builds up. The watchtower's position is forced to change.

The question is: "how long will it take for the publication to directly state that Russel, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz, G.B. were all wrong about this matter?

Recent waffling on the length of the creative days (actually from 1987 to now), I suspect is due to this subject being a threat to the F&Ds credability.

34

Feeling disloyal

by stirred but not shaken in

i've been visiting here for about a year or so, but didn't really feel compelled to participate other than reading the various posts that interested me.. there's been that uncomfortable feeling of being disloyal to god, the organization, many friends and relatives.. i've been associated since birth.

after 65 + years of service within this organization and actually enjoying that time, it troubled me to find myself wanting to express feelings that were contrary to all that time of "faithfulness".

those years were filled with progressive "privileges and responsibilities" even at a high level, and there was considerable success in our evangelizing activity.

Make Lemonade

stirred but not shaken:

Welcome, It would be great if I already know you. In the big picture we already have much in common. The path our lives have taken in the past are similar. You were born in while I was not. However it was at a young and vulnerable age that I was introduced to J.W.s. Not an excuse, but a fact that helped me to understand the question: "how could I have gotten involved in a religion that is so wrong".

Looking forward to your futher contributions.

157

WTS buys £1,000,000 luxury sea-front property in Wales, UK

by Simon in

shower room.

office.

games room.

Make Lemonade

I have started a list of people that I will share this with. I will wait until the evidence is to strong to dismiss. This kind of thing will effect their hearts. Especially the pictures included. It will just be outrageous to them. I can hardly wait.

Thanks

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

Make Lemonade

KateWild, cha ching, jgnat:

Thank you all. You put a big smile on my face. Now all day at work I will be thinking how positive this experience really is. For us to view all our experiences from a more "normal" perspective is great. Believe me, it will be hard to get the image of the smiley face waving a flag out of my head.

So funny and appropriate.

17

Do Current WT writers review Early Russell Writings? Obviously not.

by objectivetruth in

jw
friends

from the book "the divine plan of the ages" - c.t.

russell 1886. as a forcible illustration we mention the sodomites.

surely, if we shall find the restitution of the sodomites clearly taught, we may feel satisfied of the truth of this glorious doctrine of restitution for all mankind, spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets.... unto the jews of capernaum he said, "if the mighty works which have been done in thee had been done in sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Make Lemonade

objectivetruth, Fernando, and Ding

These quotes build up like a resevoir of knowledge. Very helpful to identify who the writers and leadership really are. In my opinion, these quotes show an intent to mislead the readers. Also, the reactions that are dismissive or even accusatory show a lack of conviction. These opinions are in the form of a broad brush, but the more one sees the pattern, the more one can pick it out. At first I could not believe that a writer of the publications would be intentionally deceptive. With posts of information like this, I now have conviction that there are many examples of intentional deception.

punkofnice

Your research and posts helped me. That does matter to me and I will always be grateful for your efforts.

Keep the faith.

126

This is my first post

by Make Lemonade in

i wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.

there are resources here that are deep.

like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?

Make Lemonade

My first "attempted" shunning was yesterday.

I was in line at the Post Office. One of three people waiting. A sister who knows me very well was one of the two other people in line. From my viewpoint, she was ignoring me, yet there is the benefit of the doubt. So I took my turn in line and finished what I came to do. The sister finished just after I did. It gave me enough time to go to the exit door and open it for her. She tried the entrance door, but for some reason could not manage to get out.

Her actions looked to me like a nervous trapped mouse. She decided to go out the exit door that I was still holding open. So far, she did not make eye contact or say anything to me. After she went out the door, and we walked a few steps I said, "hi _____, how are you?" She stopped and looked right at me and said, "Oh I did not notice it was you, I am fine". So I smiled back at her and said, "Good". Then I saw that she was headed toward her van.

Inside, I could see "the car group". In my mind I thought, "great more trapped mice". Without hesitation, I went to the front of the van and looked thru the windshield. In the passenger seat was another sister who I know very well. She was wearing sunglasses, so I could not look into her eyes. I could see the frown on her face.

Looking at that frown, I started waving and saying, "How are you?" Only after I saw the frown turn to a slight smile did I stop waving, and said "bye".

To me the waving, greeting, opening the door, etc. shows that I am not controlled by their injustice to me. After all, I was D.F.'d for "giving testimony in opposition to the WT" and speaking "abusively about the glorious ones". Those are not valid charges. For me to submit to the shunning, would be to act like a beat dog that is in submission to the "glorious ones". What a joke that would be! Sharing this with you all makes me feel liberated and free of guilt.

This dates me, but seems so appropriate: "Works for me!"

14

Fear leads to becoming uneducated

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

the other day my wife and i listen to a talk about making the planet and it's people better.

one of the things the speaker brought out was on education.

she brought out studies show that fear causes a person to keep from learning.

Make Lemonade

Still Totally ADD: Wow! That is some experience. Very happy you could survive that. It is so encouraging to see you share your expeirences so others can be helped. You might not ever know how many will read about you and gain freedom. Perhaps their first step towards a happier life. A life without the intellectual prison bonds.

Good for you!

14

Fear leads to becoming uneducated

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

the other day my wife and i listen to a talk about making the planet and it's people better.

one of the things the speaker brought out was on education.

she brought out studies show that fear causes a person to keep from learning.

Make Lemonade

Still Totally ADD: Your comment about the P.O. abusing your friend and his threat to kill you. That is a big deal for an 8 year old to deal with. Also, what happened with the P.O.? Was his crime reported? Did he go on to molest others? Did you talk to your parents? Does this experience cause you problems now?

You do not have to reveal any of the details to me. Just wanted to point out that the abuse of your friend should have been reported to the police. In Watchtower world the "culture" is to leave it in Jehovah's hands. Forgive. Do not bring reproach on Jehovah's organization. You get the idea.

My illustration about taking your transmission problems to an expert is practicle. Reporting a crime to the police is practicle. Abuse is a crime. The abuse policies of Jehovah's Witnesses are backwards and add to the problems rather than help people deal with it. Experts are not searched for. Answers are not given.

You are not to blame. You should not feel quilty about the past. I would say, since you mentioned the incident of abuse, that could indicate that it bothers you still. So I just wanted to give some perspective. Romans 13 relates we should be in subjection to the superior authorities. We do not fear calling the police if someone breaks into our home. We do not fear to call the fire department when our house is on fire. Why should we fear calling the police when the crime of abuse occurs?

14

Fear leads to becoming uneducated

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

the other day my wife and i listen to a talk about making the planet and it's people better.

one of the things the speaker brought out was on education.

she brought out studies show that fear causes a person to keep from learning.

Make Lemonade

Apognophos: Your comments and reference had this effect on me. Problems have degrees of seriousness. Compares to first, second, third degree murder. Add manslaughter and self-defence, you have a basis to say that "sin" has degrees. Sickness can be minor or major. Etc..

When it comes to giving advice or taking actions to help, a deeper understanding of the problem will be beneficial. I will not work on my vehicles like I did in the 60's. Why? I do not understand the computers, sensors, or electronics. My truck had a sensor light coming on which prevented it from passing a smog test. My neighbor cleared 3 of the five codes and recommended a repair shop. The transmission repair shop recommended I take it to the dealer. At the dealer the mechanic had to ask for a specialist to look at the problem. The specialist found the problem and replaced the computer sensor or whatever it was. Then the truck passed smog and has been sold. It was sold to a company that I do business with. I see the truck about twice a month. The truck is performing well and my friend is happy with it.

We all want to help in whatever ways we can. When the problem is over our heads it is best to find people with expertise about the problem. Your information about fear is helpful. Should a search for a professional become part of the solution? Or is the answer found in common sense?

Thanks for the information.

38

How many were victims of child molesters who were members that are still members?!

by Guardian77 in

many members just as in the catholic church have molested children and are not punished nor turned in to the police..

Make Lemonade

Good for you. It makes me happy to know you are taking steps to deal with your life. Not only for you, but for your entire family. You will find people with a whole lot more experience than myself willing to help you.

That does not mean that I am not interested in how things turn out for you and family. Also, I believe everyone contributes to the solution. You will have your helpful things to share with others very soon.

Stay in touch and let us know what you can. Especially the solutions and how you feel about finding them.